I came to this site some time back to report that I had taken three (3) polygraph tests, by two different operators, and all reported that I failed the test (deceptive).  These were controlled question tests (CQTs).  Recently, a new polygraher was recommended highly, and I went for yet one more test.  I told him the background, but he didn't have the earlier results.  He suggested trying a directed-lie test.  Result:  I passed with a very high truthful score.

I am a pretty simple guy, and I believe in myself and the idea that right wins in the end.  If you were wondering, I made no effort to fool the machine in any of the tests, and the questions were always about the same.

I can't offer much insight into why things went this way, except for one nagging thought.  On the CQTs, I thought I was actually tellling the truth on the control question, and at least as I remember, the operators didn't tell me I was supposed to be lying.  I am led to believe that being too honest works against you in a polygraph test.

I am a 25 year old engineer for a Department of Defense contractor and have been requested by my employer to obtain a TS clearance. My drug use involved marijuana less than 20 times, over about a two year period, 5+ years ago. Also, some unprescribed prescription drugs (hydrocodone and adderal) over about the same period.

I did not disclose my drug use when I applied for my Secret clearance 3.5 years ago because I was nervous about keeping my job / ashamed. I know it is important to disclose it now.

I am pretty spotless otherwise. With that said, could my drug use and previous non-disclosure affect me obtaining a TS working as an engineer for a DoD contractor?

Thank you

I applied for a couple of FBI positions and now think I should rescind my applications based on what I have heard.  I consumed mushrooms 7-8 years ago once.  I don't remember the exact date.  It was a terrible experience and it was given to me by someone (they did tell me what it was but I didn't go out and buy it).  It was the only time I ever did a drug other than pot, and I learned my lesson.  Am I correct in assuming this disqualifies me from FBI employment (specifically, secret agent and investigative specialist positions)?  I had thought it was longer ago when I had done it when I applied but I have been rethinking it and getting increasingly nervous about disqualification.

One of the many problems with this kind of non-specific issue testing is that, when someone is hoping to get a job it is unlikely they will react they way they naturally would.

An innocent person accused of espionage would be most likely to emphatically deny it, would get angry and stay angry for a long period, and may even bang on the table or gesture emphatically while flatly denying any such activity.  None of that behavior, naturally, is likely to come out of a job applicant, especially one seeking a stressful job of great importance.  The polygraph operator (who is essentially a trained interrogator) will read that lack of emphatic, angry denial as indication of deception.

Don't feel bad.   I, and many others, have gone in naive and believing their bullshit.  I got my cherry popped pretty good.  It is ironic that the whole system works AGAINST honest people with a proven record of fidelity.  NSA reported me to the FBI and they actually investigated me for espionage with Taiwan!  Of course, nothing came of it.  It got a call from the a Honolulu office a year after the polygraph wanting to "talk with me", I declined.
 
The goal is to forewarn people.  Unfortunately, the pattern has been that people come here only AFTER the fact!

I live and work about 5 miles from a facility with the probably the largest number of polygraphs conducted outside of D.C..  I retired out of there in 1994.  I run into people through my biz that still work there and do my best to advertise this site and spread the word about the polygraph.  If the NCIS or FBI have a problem with this they are welcome to come read me my miranda rights and kiss my hairy corn-fed white ass while they're at it.
   
About 30-50% pretty much know the polygraph is bull shit.  The rest believe in it.  Of the former, most know it's BS, but don't really know how to protect themselves.

The real blame rests with the pinhead politicians and bureaucrats who KNOW it does more harm than good, but don't want to "rock the boat".

Believe me, you'll like the private sector better.

Good Luck, TC

T.M. Cullen wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2010 at 11:45pm:


Believe me, I realize that now.

At the time, I was thinking about my future career.

I knew I hadn't done anything, and knew that there was no evidence to indicate I had.  I wanted to be as cooperative as possible, and was under the mistaken impression that it would all be over swiftly once they discovered the lack of evidence that ANY theft or attempted contact of a FIS ever occurred, let alone whether I was involved with it.

I also had three NCIS agents assuring my wife and I that this was just a 'bump in the road' while they were ransacking my house.

Like I said, I had 'faith' in the basic goodness of the 'system,' and that I would be vindicated by the lack of evidence, and by them interviewing people I worked with.

But you're absolutely correct.  When they provided me with that paper, I should have clammed up, demanded to see an attorney, and worried about the financial cost later.  Odds are I could have worked something out.

You know what they say about hindsight, though.

Hopefully if someone reads this who is about to go through something similar, they won't make the same mistake I did.

If you are presented with a Miranda waiver, it isn't just a 'check in the box on the way to your security clearance.'  You are a suspect in a criminal investigation, and they are not looking out for your best interests - they are going to do everything in their power to tear your life apart, shake you down, and make you think of yourself as a criminal.

Do not fight this battle alone - get legal representation.

Quote:


At which point you should have zipped your lip, ceased all further cooperation and demanded to see an attorney.  Jesus!  They searched your premises?  You gave them permission without requiring they get a warrant?

Any attorney worth his salt would know legally they can't do squat based on the jiggly-wigglys on a polygraph.  Unless you admit to something incriminating.

I am a retired CTI1 and went through the NSA polygraph scam in 2000.

TC

Twoblock wrote on Sep 6^th, 2008 at 3:08am:


I totally agree.  I was victimized by the MMPI-2  while my marriage was failing.  It later turned out there was fraud involved by the psychological association that administered the test because they were in collusion with a church; and for other reasons that were evident to a judge. The main psychologist has been conducting symposiums as far back as ’96 teaching clergy when to refer business to him!  I found that out by a simple Google search on his name in the city which we live. What isn’t apparent, but became so after a smoking gun letter was taken down from the witness stand, is this psychologist is also allowing unqualified clergy to ‘diagnose’ when referring business to him!  When I got wise to what was going on, all of these people ganged up on me and colluded with my husband to try to drive me crazy.  They did it in an attempt to make the results of their test look believable AND more importantly to cover their butts. The whole escapade was so deviant and outlandish, if I had gone to police and told what they were all doing. while they were doing it, I surely would have been deemed nuts.  Instead the whole fiasco played out on a witness stand.  The judge bought none of it.  My attorney exposed them all for the fools they are.  So what were these psychologists motivation for victimizing me?  Simple… Money!  We had a great PPO that would pay and pay for years for a serious mental diagnosis  Obviously, her husband wanted to get her help.  Interestingly enough they refused to hear about his bullying and his lies. How convenient huh?! 

My raw data from the MMPU-2 was re-entered by another psychologist and no abnormal results could be found.  I was also evaluated  by a psychiatrist and no abnormalities could be shown there either. I was awarded full custody of my children!  The whole mess cost thousands to defend and allowed the person who really needed the help to continue on with his pathological liar antics. I think it should be against the law for these types of test to be administered or used against a person during a divorce.  Additionally, I feel many of these psychologists are in fear for their careers anyway.  I feel they know that neuroscience will eventually necessitate the  MMPI-2, 3, and other test like it, go the way of the dinosaur.  If some psycho psychologist thinks they’re going to collude with another victimizer to destroy someone’s life by taking all they hold most dear, they out to be able to prove a disorder with solid evidence.  Solid evidence would be brain scan technology; not some flimsy archaic 567 true false exam.  The whole thing going on in psychology today for monetary gain, via bilking insurance companies, is so absurd that it would be laughable, if it wasn’t so criminal.

Thanks, guys.

George - I've often thought about petitioning them for specific information pursuant to the case against me (if you can even call it that, since no charges were ever filed) but the truth is, there's really nothing of consequence to be learned there.

I've been out of the military for a few years now, and I'm not under any illusions about going back.  Unfortunately, this pretty much locks me out of almost any cleared civilian work out there.

Which is just as well - I will not work for any organization that relies on polygraph testing.  Being a civilian now, I have that choice.  I'm saddened that my military career came to a crashing halt the way it did, though, and I often think about what life would be like had I passed the CI poly and gone on to NIOC Denver as a CTT1.  Impossible to know, really.

There's nothing to be gained for me to press them for information.  I have my honorable discharge, am using the post-9/11 GI Bill, and have no desire to go kicking things around.

I just wanted to add my voice and story to the chorus of the thousands that have been wronged by this deceptive, amoral, and scientifically bankrupt process - the one that allowed John Walker continued ability to pilfer our nation's most trusted COMSEC materials with impunity; yet identified me as a security threat.

It seems almost impossible to effect a change in security screening protocols - the polygraphers hold the keys to the access; they are controlling all the doors.  Their very livelihood is inexorably entwined to the concept of government officials and military brass continuing to not question the polygraph's effectiveness in screening out possible security risks.

Perhaps there's light at the end of the tunnel.  I never thought I'd see military policy towards homosexuality change, and we all see the way that wind is blowing.

All the best.

It seems as if I'm damned from the very beginning, anybody have positive results taking a second poly after being deemed deceptive in the first.